Rachel Wade Video

0:08

8 secondsNow your ass is mine and I’m guaranteeing you I’m going — to murder you. I’m letting you know that now. Because you know what? Josh might have played me,

0:16

16 secondsbut I’m gonna play your ass out to watch. >> The case played out like a real life version of Mean Girls.

0:23

23 seconds>> She is a fugly slut. >> You’re a fat bitch, and I’m going to kill you.

0:31

31 secondsI swear on my life. How do you account for that? >> I don’t. I was basically obsessed with the the chase of it all.

0:39

39 seconds>> Only this time the rivalry and jealousy ended. Not in high school drama, but in murder. >> I said it because I was upset, and truthfully, I wanted to scare her.

0:49

49 seconds>> I never had the intent on actually harming. >> Maybe that’s something that, you know,

0:56

56 secondsone could dismiss as angry teenage banter, but not after you actually kill her.

1:13

1 minute, 13 secondsI had a one track mind. >> Boys. >> Yes a boy. >> And at that point, I was just feuding with Sarah.

1:19

1 minute, 19 seconds>> Two teenage girls fighting over one boy lead to one bleeding out on a suburban street in Florida.

1:31

1 minute, 31 seconds>> And the other Rachel Wade, convicted of murder. >> Rachel deserves a life sentence, your honor. >> For 16 years,

1:38

1 minute, 38 secondsshe’s always maintained it was self-defense, not murder. Despite evidence to the contrary. >> There was two sides to it.

1:45

1 minute, 45 secondsAnd, I mean, I didn’t go after her. I did what I could to avoid it. >> A self-defense means you have no choice, right?

1:53

1 minute, 53 secondsBut you had plenty. >> I mean, you’re right. >> What did you do before you left your apartment. >> I grabbed a knife. >> It’s not self-defense.

2:01

2 minutes, 1 secondIf you’re out in the streets with a weapon now, would she finally come clean? Do you accept that you murdered Sarah?

3:11

3 minutes, 11 secondsI’m back in Florida, a place where I’ve sat across from a son who murdered his parents. A husband who killed his wife.

3:18

3 minutes, 18 secondsA serial killer who hunted hikers.

3:21

3 minutes, 21 secondsThis time to confront a young woman whose crime was driven by the dark intensity of teenage romance. >> 911. What’s your emergency?

3:30

3 minutes, 30 seconds>> In the early morning of April 15th, 2009, a 911 call came in on the other end. A panicked voice struggling to explain what happened.

4:01

4 minutes, 1 second>> A simmering feud between two teenage girls over a boy finally exploded when 19 year old Rachel Wade stabbed 18 year old Sarah Ludemann twice,

4:11

4 minutes, 11 secondsthe second blow piercing her heart. >> As emotions flared, Rachel’s arms remained crossed.

4:17

4 minutes, 17 secondsShe’s accused of stabbing Pinellas Park student Sarah Ludemann to death.

4:20

4 minutes, 20 seconds>> Both girls were engaged in a vicious internet battle over another teenager.

4:25

4 minutes, 25 seconds>> Rachel Wade stuck to her story that she stabbed Sarah Ludemann in self-defense.

4:30

4 minutes, 30 seconds>> Despite her conviction for murder a decade and a half ago, Rachel Wade has always claimed she stabbed Sarah Ludemann in self-defense.

4:38

4 minutes, 38 seconds>> I acted in self-defense because I got attacked. >> She grabbed me by my hair and I’m flailing my arms.

4:43

4 minutes, 43 seconds>> A claim she bolstered over the years in legal appeals. Deep in the swampland of Central Florida at Lowell Correctional Institution, Wade now 35,

4:55

4 minutes, 55 secondssays she’s ready to open up about the crime. And I wonder if she’ll finally take responsibility for murder.

5:01

5 minutes, 1 secondIt’s been, what, 16 years since that fateful night? No doubt you’re you’re older and wiser now. >> Yes.

5:10

5 minutes, 10 seconds>> We wanted to talk to you today.

5:11

5 minutes, 11 secondsTo really to try and understand the mindset and motivations behind your actions in this case. Why did you want to talk to us?

5:20

5 minutes, 20 seconds>> Um,

5:22

5 minutes, 22 secondshonestly, because there’s a lot of young girls out there that I think have been through similar situations, and luckily they may not have escalated to that. And I want to help prevent that. >> Uh.

5:29

5 minutes, 29 seconds>> I want you to help me understand that teenage Rachel that got you in all this trouble. Help me get inside her. Her head.

5:38

5 minutes, 38 secondsOkay, um, from the record, it sounds like life started off just fine for you, right? You had two hardworking, loving parents.

5:46

5 minutes, 46 secondsYes. Very supportive. >> Yes. >> Always have been. Mhm. Um, and it showed in grade school at least,

5:55

5 minutes, 55 secondsyou were regarded as a very bright, promising girl. >> Yes.

5:59

5 minutes, 59 seconds>> The only criticism that I saw from your teachers in the record is that you were overly social. >> I was extremely social, yes.

6:08

6 minutes, 8 seconds>> But in high school, Rachel’s behavior started to go seriously sideways. Now teenage rebellion is is common.

6:16

6 minutes, 16 secondsBut you really, based on the record, seem to have taken it to an extreme. Yes. Right. Is that fair? >> Yes.

6:23

6 minutes, 23 seconds>> My parents were very overbearing to me,

6:25

6 minutes, 25 secondswhich now I see they were looking out for my best interest. And, um, I just went the opposite direction and every way I could. >> And you were just defiant. Yes.

6:34

6 minutes, 34 secondsRight. Do you know how many times your parents called the police? >> Um, no. I was a runaway countless times. I know that they were very concerned.

6:42

6 minutes, 42 secondsSo anytime I left the house without permission, they called. So I would say probably 30 or more. >> 30 or more times. Yes. You became a serial runaway? >> Away.

6:50

6 minutes, 50 secondsYes.

6:51

6 minutes, 51 seconds>> Once I met a boy that was older and I just took a different direction. I didn’t care about schoolwork anymore. I used to be very proud or wanted to make my parents proud.

7:00

7 minutesUm, all that kind of went out the window, and I had a one track mind. >> Boys? >> Yes, a boy. >> At 16, she started dating a 19 year old young man.

7:10

7 minutes, 10 secondsHer parents caught her having sex with him and called the police. He was arrested because you were underage. Yes. Right. And you still insisted on continuing to see him?

7:19

7 minutes, 19 seconds>> Yes. >> Looking back, how do you understand that behavior? >> I don’t.

7:25

7 minutes, 25 seconds>> Because I really don’t understand why I felt the need to be in that relationship. Yeah. Because it didn’t do me any good.

7:34

7 minutes, 34 seconds>> After all, Rachel was a knockout. According to her friends, all the boys were after her. So why did she seem to always get stuck on the wrong guys?

7:43

7 minutes, 43 secondsYour dad used the term fatal attraction. >> Yes. >> To characterize your early obsessive romances?

7:51

7 minutes, 51 secondsYes. Do you think that’s fair? Characterization? >> Yes. Looking back, I do. >> Mm.

7:55

7 minutes, 55 seconds>> This whole turn away from your parents and and their rules put you at risk, right? >> Yes.

8:02

8 minutes, 2 seconds>> You’re staying out all night sleeping in cars or on couches.

8:07

8 minutes, 7 secondsSometimes with people that you didn’t or couldn’t even recall their names. >> Yes. >> What was going on there?

8:14

8 minutes, 14 seconds>> I think I just wanted to stay away once I got caught being with the older guy. Um, my mother called the cops, and that was just the end of it for me.

8:23

8 minutes, 23 secondsI didn’t want to talk to them about it or anything. I didn’t think that they really understood. >> Your folks took you to counseling? >> Yes. >> Right.

8:30

8 minutes, 30 secondsWere you diagnosed? >> Um.

8:32

8 minutes, 32 seconds>> I believe they said that I was bipolar and manically depressed. >> Were you treated for those conditions? >> I was put on medication, and I probably stopped very shortly after.

8:41

8 minutes, 41 secondsI didn’t stick with it. >> Is it possible, Rachel, that your that your mental health conditions. Bipolar disorder.

8:48

8 minutes, 48 secondsDepression put you in a state of mind where you couldn’t act on obvious red flags.

8:57

8 minutes, 57 secondsMaybe yeah.

8:59

8 minutes, 59 seconds>> Soon you You left school? >> Yes.

9:01

9 minutes, 1 second>> You said you lost interest after the boy you liked got kicked out. Did your parents protest that decision?

9:09

9 minutes, 9 seconds>> They did. They were very upset. >> A high school dropout, she was now living on her own and working at Applebee’s. And of course, dating.

9:18

9 minutes, 18 secondsAnd then this. This.

9:19

9 minutes, 19 secondsA pattern emerges of these passionate but volatile relationships.

9:23

9 minutes, 23 secondsNone more so than the small man with the big ego, Josh Camacho.

9:31

9 minutes, 31 secondsEmphasis on the macho. >> Yes. >> Spring 2008. Now, you’ve known him since childhood,

9:37

9 minutes, 37 secondsbut do you remember the moment that you reconnected as adults and fell for him? >> Yes. >> You take me back to that. >> Um, if I’m being honest.

9:46

9 minutes, 46 secondswhen he first started trying to pursue me, I kind of laughed at it. I had no interest. I don’t really know what sparked it.

9:53

9 minutes, 53 secondsOne night he kissed me and I just kind of went for it. >> Do you think you became obsessed with him? >> Um, I think I became obsessed with the situation.

10:01

10 minutes, 1 second>> The situation was a love triangle.

10:04

10 minutes, 4 secondsJosh Camacho had another girlfriend >> Sarah Ludemann. >> Really was just kind of oblivious. In the beginning. I didn’t believe he was cheating.

10:12

10 minutes, 12 secondsAnd then when I started seeing the truth, I think I spiraled.

10:20

10 minutes, 20 seconds>> The chase between the two lovesick teens had just begun and would soon turn deadly.

10:48

10 minutes, 48 seconds>> It was spring of 2008. 19 year old Rachel Wade was on the rebound from one bad relationship and about to start another with a teenager she’d known since childhood.

10:59

10 minutes, 59 seconds>> I want to get over the last guy, the older guy that I was with, so I just decided to go for it. And I’ve known Josh my whole life, so I think I thought it was a safe space.

11:07

11 minutes, 7 seconds>> Josh Camacho was slight of build and stood only five feet, five inches tall. But he was every inch a player for sure.

11:15

11 minutes, 15 secondsAnd you were all in, right? You posted. You were in love and quote, he’s all mine. >> Yes.

11:22

11 minutes, 22 seconds>> You were planting the flag on him.

11:25

11 minutes, 25 secondsAnd of course, you weren’t alone in this powerful attachment to Josh Camacho. Rachel knew that Josh, at his young age,

11:33

11 minutes, 33 secondsalready had a child with a girl named Erin. But after just a few months of dating,

11:38

11 minutes, 38 secondsRachel was scrolling on the social media platform Myspace and noticed a photo of Camacho with another girl at the beach.

11:46

11 minutes, 46 secondsSarah Ludemann. That set you off? >> Yes. >> That was when I think I found out, or I realized that he was really seeing somebody else.

11:55

11 minutes, 55 secondsAnd then when I started seeing the truth, I think I spiraled. >> 17 year old Sarah Ludemann, a junior in high school, was driven.

12:03

12 minutes, 3 secondsShe attended a specialized school and hoped to be a veterinarian.

12:07

12 minutes, 7 secondsBut all that changed one summer day when Josh Camacho emerged from the back of the local chick fil A where he worked, walked past Ludemann and winked.

12:16

12 minutes, 16 secondsThat was it. She was smitten. Soon, Josh would be dating both Sarah and Rachel. When you started seeing the truth,

12:25

12 minutes, 25 secondswas your anger directed at him or at Sarah?

12:30

12 minutes, 30 seconds>> It was directed at both… um It didn’t go very well for me when it was directed at him. It usually turned into a pretty bad fight. >> Physical?

12:37

12 minutes, 37 seconds>> Um, sometimes a lot of mental and emotional. And he would normally leave, and then I would usually go the other route.

12:45

12 minutes, 45 seconds>> What do. >> You mean? >> Um, I would argue with Sarah. >> So the feud with Sarah starts on social media, right? >> I don’t know, it was just a constant rival.

12:54

12 minutes, 54 secondsIt consumed me to the point where I was tired of being harassed. >> But you were harassing just as much. I was.

13:00

13 minutes>> Yes. >> You’re both doing your best to scare and humiliate each other. >> Yes. >> Right. And to secure your positions with Josh?

13:08

13 minutes, 8 seconds>> Yes. >> I have to say, some of your messages to her seem really unhinged. >> Yes.

13:34

13 minutes, 34 seconds>> End of message.

13:36

13 minutes, 36 seconds>> How do you explain that? >> There was plenty of times that she came to my job harassing me,

13:40

13 minutes, 40 secondsand I had to ask my manager to dismiss her because I was going to get in trouble. They made me spill beers on customers.

13:47

13 minutes, 47 secondsThey followed me home from work and rear ended my roommate at the times car. So all of that leading up, I think that my threats to her,

13:56

13 minutes, 56 secondsI did intend to scare her along with my, you know, my rage or fit of rage at the moment.

14:03

14 minutes, 3 seconds>> In what will later become key evidence in the trial. Wade calls Luhrmann again and issues a death threat.

14:36

14 minutes, 36 seconds>> Body shaming, threats of violence, even death. How do you account for that? >> So I think I really just wanted to scare them.

14:45

14 minutes, 45 secondsI wanted them to think that I would do something which I never really had the intent to do. Um, and that they would just stop.

14:52

14 minutes, 52 seconds>> The horse race for Josh’s affections went on for months, and Josh seemed to enjoy it. One week he’s with Rachel, the next Sarah.

15:00

15 minutesThe two girls jockeying for position and taunting each other. March 2009. She’s posting pictures of her with Josh in New York,

15:09

15 minutes, 9 secondsso she’s winning.

15:10

15 minutes, 10 secondsYou have to see these images pop up and must have driven you crazy. Yeah, yeah.

15:16

15 minutes, 16 seconds>> Um, it was upsetting because I believed him when he said that he wasn’t seeing her. Of course.

15:20

15 minutes, 20 secondsAnd then I, you know, I would post and do the same exact thing in return. >> By April, the tide of Josh seems to turn against Sarah.

15:30

15 minutes, 30 secondsHe’s now ignoring her again at school. His treatment of her sounds abhorrent. >> I didn’t know he was mistreating her at the moment.

15:39

15 minutes, 39 secondsI thought that they were together. Um, and I think, to be honest,

15:43

15 minutes, 43 secondsthat I had started seeing somebody else or hanging out with other people.

15:47

15 minutes, 47 seconds>> So even though you were hanging out with other people, pursuing other love interests,

15:53

15 minutes, 53 secondsyou still couldn’t detach from the Josh Sarah dynamic. >> I think she was still making phone calls or, you know,

16:00

16 minutesdoing things in assumption that we were still together. And I think that I still fed it. Yes. >> April 13th you post on Myspace.

16:09

16 minutes, 9 secondsLoving my boo.

16:10

16 minutes, 10 secondsI’m sure at the time you knew that she was gonna see it and be upset, right? And no doubt she was.

16:17

16 minutes, 17 secondsAll this leads to April 14th, 2009, right? Josh makes plans with you.

16:25

16 minutes, 25 secondsWas that just out of the blue? >> He called me and asked to stay the night at my house. Um, I ended up asking him if he loved me, and he said,

16:33

16 minutes, 33 secondsI don’t know. I said, do you love her? He said, I don’t know. >> 6:36 p.m. Sarah texted Josh complaining about his treatment of her.

16:43

16 minutes, 43 secondsJosh acquiesces and invites Sarah over to his sister’s house to hang out. Thrilled, Sarah updates her Myspace page with a post.

16:52

16 minutes, 52 seconds8:30 p.m. she borrows her her folks minivan and heads over to be with Josh at his sister’s house.

16:58

16 minutes, 58 secondsBut first she drives by your apartment and she yells, according to one of her friends, stay away from my man. >> I didn’t know what she called out.

17:07

17 minutes, 7 secondsI know that there was a lot of screaming outside of my apartment that night. >> You didn’t take the switcheroo very well. I can I can understand that.

17:16

17 minutes, 16 secondsI mean, you must have been livid. Can you admit that? >> I remember I was very upset when they drove through. >> Yes. >> Over the course of that night,

17:24

17 minutes, 24 secondsRachel would go from upset to red hot mad with deadly consequences. Tell me, Rachel. Tell me what happened that night.

18:16

18 minutes, 16 secondsIt was April 14th, 2009. The night sky was clear with a calm breeze. Weather belying the violence about to unfold.

18:25

18 minutes, 25 secondsSarah Ludemann Rachel Wade claims,

18:27

18 minutes, 27 secondshad cruised by Rachel’s apartment in her parents minivan, screaming threats to stay away from Josh Camacho, the man, if you can call him that,

18:36

18 minutes, 36 secondsthe teenage girls were fighting over. For support, Rachel called yet another boy she’d been dating. Javier Laboy.

18:44

18 minutes, 44 seconds>> I called him and asked if I could go to his house,

18:46

18 minutes, 46 secondsbecause it was somewhere that I thought nobody would know where it was. >> You went there seeking shelter?

18:52

18 minutes, 52 seconds>> Um, I went there to wait for my friend because she was with her boyfriend? Yes. >> Right. Now, you’ve said that you were so afraid at that point, right?

19:03

19 minutes, 3 seconds>> Yes. They had.

19:04

19 minutes, 4 secondsThey told me they had intentions on jumping me and there was numerous people with them. So, yes, I was. >> Afraid for your life. >> I guess you could say so.

19:11

19 minutes, 11 seconds>> Before you leave your house, you grab a kitchen knife. Yes. Why? >> I thought it would scare them.

19:17

19 minutes, 17 secondsBecause I knew that there was going to be numerous people with them. I knew it wouldn’t just be Sarah by herself. >> So were you more afraid or more angry?

19:25

19 minutes, 25 seconds>> Um, I think it was both.

19:26

19 minutes, 26 seconds>> It strikes me that Wade wants to have it both ways in this interview.

19:30

19 minutes, 30 secondsSure, she admits to the killing, but she still also heavily hinting at being afraid for her life. Pretexts for justifiable lethal force.

19:39

19 minutes, 39 secondsAnd her memory is about to get wobbly, too. You end up at Javier’s house. You told police you went there seeking safety,

19:47

19 minutes, 47 secondslike safe harbor from these threats.

19:49

19 minutes, 49 seconds>> Yes Is that true? >> I did. >> Mhm. And at the point you get there, are you more scared or more angry?

19:56

19 minutes, 56 seconds>> Um, I think I’m both, I don’t know. I think the scared fueled anger and vice versa.

20:02

20 minutes, 2 seconds>> A witness that was there with you and Javier later said that you were in a rage when you showed up,

20:09

20 minutes, 9 secondsbecause rage suggests much more anger than fear. Fury even. Can you admit to that?

20:16

20 minutes, 16 seconds>> I admit to ranting about the circumstances of the night.

20:21

20 minutes, 21 seconds>> Rage also suggests that you’re not quite in your right mind. Yes. Is that fair?

20:29

20 minutes, 29 seconds>> Yes.

20:30

20 minutes, 30 seconds>> Enraged, Rachel wanted to confirm her suspicions that Sarah was with Josh that night.

20:35

20 minutes, 35 secondsSo she left and drove to Josh’s sister’s house and spotted them together. Josh saw her too, and added insult to injury.

20:44

20 minutes, 44 secondsHe texts you. He says, go home. I don’t like you no more. >> I’m saying I do remember him saying, go home. I don’t remember. >> All of it.

20:52

20 minutes, 52 seconds>> Rachel drove back to Javier Laboy’s house. Red hot. Mad. A friend of Laboy’s, Dustin Grimes, was there as well.

20:59

20 minutes, 59 secondsAnd he hears you say,

21:02

21 minutes, 2 secondswhen you get back from confirming your suspicions that Josh is with Sarah after canceling on you,

21:09

21 minutes, 9 secondsI’m gonna kill that — bitch. >> I don’t recall saying that at all. I had said that previous on a voicemail.

21:17

21 minutes, 17 secondsI did not say that at that moment. And the reason that I left the house. >> Why would Dustin lie about that? >> I don’t know to, be honest. >> Possible that you were in some kind of red zone,

21:25

21 minutes, 25 secondsand you can’t remember exactly what you said. >> No, the only thing.

21:29

21 minutes, 29 seconds>> That’s very specific, and it seems unlikely that he would make that up out of out of blue.

21:34

21 minutes, 34 seconds>> The only thing that I can say is he had a girlfriend that did not get along with me, and was also friends with some of the girls that harassed me.

21:42

21 minutes, 42 seconds>> Well, can you see how damning that evidence is? >> Yes. >> 12:33 a.m. Sarah calls you. Right?

21:51

21 minutes, 51 secondsShe’s in the car on speakerphone.

21:54

21 minutes, 54 secondsTwo witnesses in the van say they heard you threaten to quote stab her and her Mexican boyfriend.

22:03

22 minutes, 3 seconds>> No. >> I didn’t. >> Deny that. >> Yes. >> I did not say that. >> So now three people have heard you make death threats,

22:12

22 minutes, 12 secondsdeadly threats within the span of a short period of time. And you’re denying all of that? >> I did not say that at all.

22:22

22 minutes, 22 seconds>> I don’t want to get bogged down arguing with you,

22:24

22 minutes, 24 secondsbut a lot of what you’re saying contradicts what you said back then and certainly contradicts the evidence in the record. You realize that?

22:33

22 minutes, 33 seconds>> I mean, I’m not gonna admit to saying something.

22:35

22 minutes, 35 secondsI don’t remember because I’d never admitted to saying any of that that night. >> Mhm. Okay.

22:39

22 minutes, 39 secondsWell, you say you’re here to try and help all the little girls out there that might go down this dark path. >> And. >> I am. You are. Yes.

22:47

22 minutes, 47 seconds>> But not if you’re lying to me. >> But I’m not lying to you. That night, I do not recall making any threats of any kind like that.

22:55

22 minutes, 55 seconds>> Sarah had called it a night and was about to drive home when she happens upon a friend who gave her what will be fateful Intel.

23:02

23 minutes, 2 secondsRachel Wade was just blocks away in front of Javier Laboy’s house hanging out by her red car. Sarah and two friends sped off to confront her,

23:11

23 minutes, 11 secondsunaware that Wade was armed with a knife. You were ready to fight her. You were not trying to avoid the fight.

23:19

23 minutes, 19 secondsYou’re out there in the streets with a knife, almost like you’re laying in wait for the fight. It sure seems that way.

23:27

23 minutes, 27 seconds>> I don’t recall if I would have intended on really fighting her.

23:30

23 minutes, 30 secondsI would have stopped at the house when she was outside and fought her. >> Where’s the knife? At this point? >> It’s on the hood of my car. >> On the hood of your car.

23:38

23 minutes, 38 seconds>> Ready? That’s not exactly a defensive position. At around 12:30 a.m., Sarah and her friends arrived outside Laboy’s house,

23:47

23 minutes, 47 secondsthe minivan screeched to a halt. Wade was ready within moments. Sarah is out of the car and face to face with her armed rival.

23:56

23 minutes, 56 secondsLet’s talk about the fight. Witnesses agree that the whole thing lasted just a few seconds. Is that your recollection? >> That I don’t remember much of it, but yes.

24:04

24 minutes, 4 seconds>> Hmm.

24:06

24 minutes, 6 seconds>> You told police you were flailing with both arms everywhere with the knife pointed out like this.

24:14

24 minutes, 14 seconds>> I remember walking towards her with the knife pointed out,

24:17

24 minutes, 17 secondsand I remember being struck one time and my head being kind of pushed down, and then I started swinging. One time. >> Yes. >> Okay.

24:25

24 minutes, 25 secondsAt the time, you said you were hit more than one time. >> I mean, I remember being hit once in my head, being pushed down with the other two coming towards me. >> Okay. >> Sarah was unarmed,

24:34

24 minutes, 34 secondsbut Rachel was ready to strike back with deadly force. Her knife came down on Sarah twice. The second stab fatal.

24:42

24 minutes, 42 secondsThe fatal stab wound was a forcible wound, right? It was 2.5 inches deep.

24:49

24 minutes, 49 secondsPierced the pectoral muscle. All the fatty tissue. The fourth rib, in fact, the left lung.

24:56

24 minutes, 56 secondsAnd into the heart. It had to be delivered in a downward striking motion with weight behind it.

25:04

25 minutes, 4 secondsIn fact, witnesses describe what they saw consistent with that. You admit that?

25:12

25 minutes, 12 seconds>> I don’t recall a lot of that moment. >> If you can’t remember the stabbing,

25:17

25 minutes, 17 secondshow can you be so sure about all the other details that you recount from that?

25:22

25 minutes, 22 seconds>> I mean there’s a lot of stuff that I’m not sure about that you’ve said that I don’t recall any of them. >> Were you, like, in a blind rage?

25:30

25 minutes, 30 secondsIs that why you can’t remember? >> It could have been. >> After the stabbing,

25:35

25 minutes, 35 secondseyewitnesses saw Sarah stagger back to the minivan where she used her last breath to call Josh. But all she could say is it hurts.

25:45

25 minutes, 45 secondsThen she collapsed on the pavement at 12:45 a.m.. Sarah’s friend Jaleesa Smith frantically calls 911.

26:15

26 minutes, 15 seconds>> 18 year old Sarah Ludemann was bleeding to death, and Rachel Wade was about to answer for her actions.

26:37

26 minutes, 37 seconds>> A self-Defense means you have no choice, right? But you had plenty.

27:01

27 minutes, 1 second>> The voice on the 911 call was Javier Laboy. Rachel Wade’s friend and sometimes boyfriend.

27:07

27 minutes, 7 secondsHe was trying to stop Sarah’s bleeding by applying pressure to the stab wound. >> You gotta hurry. >> Calm down.

27:34

27 minutes, 34 seconds>> Shortly thereafter, the police arrived at the scene to find Sara lying in the street, her breathing shallow. Rachel Wade,

27:42

27 minutes, 42 secondsmeanwhile, was sitting calmly on a bench smoking a cigarette. But first, wade through the murder weapon onto a neighbor’s roof.

27:50

27 minutes, 50 secondsYour accounts shifted a lot to police, right? At first, at the scene, you told them you didn’t know what happened to Sara,

27:58

27 minutes, 58 secondsand you didn’t mention the knife. You ditched the knife. >> I did. >> And omitted it from your first police statements, I did.

28:06

28 minutes, 6 seconds>> Why? >> I fear. >> Fear. >> Of. >> Uh, the outcome. I didn’t really know what had actually happened.

28:13

28 minutes, 13 seconds>> You were hiding evidence? >> Yes.

28:15

28 minutes, 15 seconds>> There are disturbing accounts of your manner after you killed Sara. One of the witnesses recounted that you were smirking or smiling after the stabbing.

28:27

28 minutes, 27 secondsOne cop said she appeared calm and unconcerned as to the events taking place around her. Another officer said the entire time.

28:36

28 minutes, 36 secondsShe never became upset. Never cried. Never asked how the person who was stabbed was. How do you account for that?

28:44

28 minutes, 44 seconds>> I don’t recall much of any of that. I remember sitting on the front porch. I remember having guns drawn at me. >> At the time.

28:51

28 minutes, 51 secondsYou said that? Well, I was in shock. They were noting your manner, your calm, unconcerned manner with suspicion.

29:01

29 minutes, 1 secondMeanwhile, Sarah was actually in a physical state of shock. Right. She had lost half the blood in her body.

29:09

29 minutes, 9 secondsUnder interrogation by homicide detectives just after the stabbing, Rachel claims she was only defending herself.

29:36

29 minutes, 36 seconds>> At one point you told police all three women were chasing you around your car, which doesn’t match any of the evidence.

29:43

29 minutes, 43 seconds>> I don’t know why I said they were chasing me around my car. They did run up to my car. All three of them at one time.

29:49

29 minutes, 49 seconds>> Some of the witnesses say that they didn’t all get out together. Some say they did.

29:56

29 minutes, 56 secondsEven though you made it sound like you were basically fending off Sarah and Janet at the same time.

30:01

30 minutes, 1 secondUm, all of the witnesses say that no one touched you until after you fought and stabbed Sarah.

30:09

30 minutes, 9 secondsIs that true? >> I don’t recall. >> Anybody but Sarah hitting me initially. Yes.

30:35

30 minutes, 35 seconds>> Detectives deliver the devastating news of Sarah’s death, then dismantle Wade’s self-defense claims.

31:17

31 minutes, 17 seconds>> The homicide detective explained it to you in that interrogation. A Self-Defense means you have no choice. Right. But you had plenty.

31:25

31 minutes, 25 secondsYou could have stayed home and called the police. You could have gone to your parents and called the police.

31:30

31 minutes, 30 secondsYou could have taken shelter inside Javier’s home and called the police. You could have just gone home when Josh said go home.

31:40

31 minutes, 40 secondsHow do you account for that? >> I mean, you’re right. I could have done any of those things. Most importantly, I could have called my parents.

31:48

31 minutes, 48 secondsIt would have been a safe place. >> This is why it looks more like fury than fear.

31:56

31 minutes, 56 secondsIt turns out Wade’s blind rage had driven her to a knife attack once before. Now, this wasn’t the first time you were violent with a knife.

32:05

32 minutes, 5 secondsWhat about in November of 2005? Didn’t you attack your mother? >> I was attempting… >> A kitchen knife at her.

32:12

32 minutes, 12 seconds>> to cut myself, and she tried to stop me. >> You threw her, threw. >> The knife and went in the. >> Bathroom. >> Well, first you assaulted her physically. >> I don’t remember,

32:21

32 minutes, 21 secondsI just remember throwing the knife when she came after me to take it from me. >> It’s in the police report. You dug her fingers into her arms. You ran to the kitchen,

32:29

32 minutes, 29 secondsyou grabbed a knife and you threw it at her. Thank God it the blade didn’t strike her abdomen. But is that another example of like,

32:38

32 minutes, 38 secondsyou going into the red zone? Yes. Do you think that is part of your mental makeup or condition?

32:47

32 minutes, 47 secondsPossibly. Do you know the term covet? The covet?

32:53

32 minutes, 53 secondsThat’s when you you want something so desperately that you can’t have or that someone else has,

33:00

33 minutesand it occupies your thoughts every day until it narrows your focus and then it starts to drive your choices and behavior.

33:11

33 minutes, 11 secondsDoes that ring true at all for you? >> Um, I think so, yeah. Looking back, that could definitely.

33:17

33 minutes, 17 seconds>> Did you kill Sarah out of your covetous desire to possess what she had with Josh? >> I can’t say that.

33:25

33 minutes, 25 seconds>> Because I didn’t have the intent to. >> Kill Sarah. >> The crime leaves Sarah’s father, Charlie Ludman, heartbroken.

33:34

33 minutes, 34 secondsLooking for answers and seeking cold comfort in calls to his dead daughter’s cell phone.

33:58

33 minutes, 58 seconds>> End of message. >> With Sarah’s parents and friends.

34:02

34 minutes, 2 secondsFinally get the closure and answers they need during the tense trial, Rachel Wade will try her best to avoid responsibility.

34:10

34 minutes, 10 seconds>> I acted in self-defense because I got attacked.

34:54

34 minutes, 54 seconds>> State, you may proceed with your opening statement.

34:56

34 minutes, 56 seconds>> On July 21st of 2010, at the Pinellas County Courthouse in Clearwater, Florida, Rachel Wade’s murder trial began.

35:04

35 minutes, 4 secondsWade pleaded not guilty.

35:06

35 minutes, 6 secondsThis is Florida, after all. Where the Stand Your Ground law allows for lethal force in cases of self-defense. Wade’s attorney tried to use just that.

35:15

35 minutes, 15 seconds>> This case is about self-defense. Make no mistake about it. Make no mistake about it.

35:23

35 minutes, 23 secondsAn individual has a right to stand their ground and defend themselves. They have no duty to retreat. And Rachel Wade had the right to defend herself that night.

35:33

35 minutes, 33 seconds>> I’m going to — murder you.

35:37

35 minutes, 37 seconds>> But prosecutors have the benefit of Wade’s own incriminating words.

35:44

35 minutes, 44 seconds>> That is what Rachel Wade told Sara Luterman.

35:50

35 minutes, 50 secondsSeven and a half months before, she took a knife and stabbed her right through the heart.

35:56

35 minutes, 56 seconds>> Many of those there that night testified that Rachel was furious and made her plans known as. >> At some point in the vehicle while you were in the vehicle,

36:05

36 minutes, 5 secondsdid you overhear a conversation? >> A phone conversation? >> Yes. >> Um, yes.

36:11

36 minutes, 11 secondsI heard a girl’s voice on Sara’s phone and said, I’m gonna stab you and your Mexican boyfriend. Okay.

36:18

36 minutes, 18 seconds>> Could you clearly hear the conversation? Yes. >> Tell the jury exactly what you heard her say. >> She said, I’m gonna stab you and your Mexican boyfriend.

36:28

36 minutes, 28 seconds>> At some point in time. Did he make a statement that she was gonna kill her? >> Yes. >> Okay. What was the statement that she made?

36:36

36 minutes, 36 seconds>> I’m gonna kill — that bitch >> So, several months prior, you threatened her life.

36:45

36 minutes, 45 secondsWithin Hours, hours, or maybe even minutes of the confrontation.

36:53

36 minutes, 53 secondsThe physical confrontation. You’re heard by three people. Two different incidents threatening her life.

37:02

37 minutes, 2 secondsBut you deny that now? >> I did not say that that night. >> You did not make either of those death threats. >> Make those threats that night. >> Are you sure? >> I’m very sure.

37:12

37 minutes, 12 seconds>> Because you did have some memory lapses that night. >> Yes. >> Right. >> But I know that I didn’t. I barely even had a conversation with her that night.

37:21

37 minutes, 21 seconds>> The evidence of murder piled up in the courtroom. Witness after witness sided against Rachel, including Janet Camacho, Josh’s sister,

37:29

37 minutes, 29 secondsrecounting how Rachel approached Sarah on the offensive with a weapon.

37:34

37 minutes, 34 seconds>> I see Rachel come up around her car with a knife in her hand. >> Around the front of her. >> Car. Yeah.

37:42

37 minutes, 42 seconds>> She traveled the entire distance from the driver’s side of the car to the passenger side. >> From where she was at from that side.

37:51

37 minutes, 51 secondsCame around in front of Sarah’s car.

37:55

37 minutes, 55 seconds>> The defense would argue that Janet Camacho had an ax to grind.

37:59

37 minutes, 59 secondsBut witness Dustin Grimes was hard to impeach an Army soldier who, by the time the trial started, was serving overseas,

38:06

38 minutes, 6 secondsgave his testimony by video.

38:22

38 minutes, 22 seconds>> The most nonpartizan witness said he saw you move from your car to engage Sarah,

38:29

38 minutes, 29 secondsjust as she had gotten out of the driver’s side of the van. And the forensic reports confirmed that,

38:38

38 minutes, 38 secondsestimating that you must have crossed about 12ft to get to her. Does that does that. >> Ring.

38:44

38 minutes, 44 seconds>> Don’t recall. I remember them saying that they pulled up directly in front of my car and when they all jumped out at one time.

38:51

38 minutes, 51 seconds>> That’s. In fact even the judge said at the sentencing,

38:54

38 minutes, 54 secondsthe testimony of every single witness was that the defendant went towards the victim.

39:05

39 minutes, 5 secondsDo you agree with that? >> I guess. >> Defense, please call your first witness.

39:13

39 minutes, 13 secondsJudge, we would call Javier Laboy. >> Only Rachel’s former boyfriend, Javier Laboy, offered a token defense at trial.

39:21

39 minutes, 21 seconds>> When Sarah got out of the vehicle, would you tell this jury, in your opinion, based on the observation,

39:29

39 minutes, 29 secondswho was the aggressor in that situation? Sarah was.

39:34

39 minutes, 34 secondsWill you tell this jury who was the one to throw the first punch? >> Sarah was. >> finally in a risky move.

39:42

39 minutes, 42 secondsRachel Wade took the stand. >> And began to swing my arms back in retaliation. >> To defend yourself. >> Yes.

39:50

39 minutes, 50 seconds>> But her defense fell apart under withering cross-examination.

39:53

39 minutes, 53 seconds>> You said that you couldn’t even remember the point that you stabbed her. >> I don’t remember physically stabbing her. >> You remember everything else.

40:04

40 minutes, 4 secondsYou remember what happened before. You remember all the threats, right? >> Yes. >> You remember everything that happened afterwards, right? And Jenna coming at you, right?

40:12

40 minutes, 12 seconds>> Yes. >> You just don’t remember that. >> I don’t.

40:16

40 minutes, 16 seconds>> So how would you know that you acted in self-defense if you don’t remember that? >> I just remember swinging my arms. I don’t physically remember stabbing her.

40:24

40 minutes, 24 seconds>> You told her you were gonna murder her? Correct? >> Yes. >> You said Sarah had told you the same things.

40:33

40 minutes, 33 seconds>> Yes. >> You’re the only one that actually followed through. On your promise. Isn’t that true?

40:41

40 minutes, 41 secondsYes. >> In the end, the jury took only two hours to convict you. Right.

40:48

40 minutes, 48 seconds>> The defendant is guilty of murder in the second degree as charged. So say we all. >> They could have opted for manslaughter, but they didn’t. They chose second degree murder.

40:57

40 minutes, 57 secondsRight, a self-defense acquittal. Doesn’t sound like it was even on their radar. Do you now understand why? >> Yes.

41:04

41 minutes, 4 seconds>> How would you explain it? >> Um. I didn’t hide from it. I didn’t call the cops. Everything leading up to it looked damaging.

41:13

41 minutes, 13 seconds>> On some level. You did feel an existential threat from Sarah.

41:18

41 minutes, 18 secondsNot physically, but really, I guess more in terms of your your ego and the way you sort of organize your,

41:25

41 minutes, 25 secondsyour world. Could it be that that night when he clearly chose Sarah over you, right,

41:33

41 minutes, 33 secondsthat your ego was too fragile to bear it and so you acted to annihilate the threat?

41:41

41 minutes, 41 secondsSarah? >> Possibly, I don’t know. >> Our one hour interview was about to end, but there was one final question to drive at.

41:50

41 minutes, 50 secondsThe most important one. Rachel Wade can’t have it both ways. Would she? Still insists, as she has for the last 16 years,

41:58

41 minutes, 58 secondsthat the killing was in self-defense. Or was it murder? You got 27 years. >> Yes.

42:07

42 minutes, 7 seconds>> Right. Could have gotten life. >> Yes. >> Have you accepted your sentence now? >> I have.

42:15

42 minutes, 15 seconds>> That wasn’t always the case. >> Um, no. In the beginning, I rebelled. I was very upset. >> You filed appeals? They were denied.

42:23

42 minutes, 23 secondsYou did a fair amount of blame shifting over time. >> Yes. >> You realize that? >> Yes. >> Blame the victim.

42:29

42 minutes, 29 secondsPutting you in this position. Blame Josh. You blame the police? At one point, you said they never do anything.

42:36

42 minutes, 36 secondsYou even blamed your own attorney in motions for ineffective counsel? >> Yes. >> You said at the time you were truly remorseful.

42:47

42 minutes, 47 secondsIs that true? >> Um, yes. >> I think once it all sink in. >> Sorry.

42:55

42 minutes, 55 secondsOkay. I think once it all sink in, in reality, that I killed somebody. Yes.

43:06

43 minutes, 6 seconds>> Remorse requires that you accept responsibility for the wrong that you did. Murdering Sarah? Yes.

43:14

43 minutes, 14 secondsDo you accept that you murdered Sarah? >> Yes. >> In one word, for the first time,

43:21

43 minutes, 21 secondsWade issues a long delayed confession. At the sentencing hearing, Sarah’s father,

43:28

43 minutes, 28 secondsCharlie Louderman, who has since passed away, would give an emotional impact statement, bringing the courtroom to tears.

43:36

43 minutes, 36 secondsIt was a fitting tribute to a young woman taken too soon for no good reason. >> My child was stabbed to death by Rachel Wade.

43:44

43 minutes, 44 secondsShe was only 18 years old. I will never hold her. I will never get to see her, get married, never hear her laugh at my dumb jokes.

43:54

43 minutes, 54 secondsNever drive around with me in a cab like she did when she was a little girl.

43:59

43 minutes, 59 secondsThe special way only a father and daughter could relate and bond.

44:04

44 minutes, 4 secondsI would only be able to hear her voice by calling her phone and hear her say, hey, it’s Sarah. Leave me a message and I’ll call you back.

44:14

44 minutes, 14 secondsWhy? Because Rachel chose to bring a knife. She wouldn’t fight fair.